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Help => Vehicle Help => Topic started by: Dracen on November 06, 2015, 12:27:59 AM

Title: help me build my 408 stroker
Post by: Dracen on November 06, 2015, 12:27:59 AM
ok well title says it all... my 98 ram started to have a miss in cylinder 6 and 8 so figured nows a good time to go big or go home.... need help picking a cam.... keep in mind this is my daily driver...

98 ram 1500 4x4 5.9 360 auto with 221,000 miles... 33 12.5 x wrangle mrt tires... 3.55 gears... lots more to list but my computer just told me I have less than 2 minutes before it's rebooting....
Title: Re: help me build my 408 stroker
Post by: Dracen on November 06, 2015, 01:00:42 AM
ok  back for a sec... this is my first motor build ever so any tips would be nice as well ... now I have a machine shop going to work over the stock heads... ie valve job and decking and all... they will also be doing the motor boring... everything will be getting fluxed and cleaned as well to check everything first. The plan is to have this done by the first of next month...and while the machine shop is doing the machine work I don't have the funds to let them do the full build which he charges 700 for... that means I'll be doing it all myself.... I have a few of the tools and what I don't have I should be able to either buy borrow or something.

so other than my home done port and polish job on the intake manifold, and throttle body. I have also done larger injectors (factory s 15 PPH mine are 24)

so I called summit today about prices for the stroker kit and found out something cool...they said I can use a stroker kit from an 360LA block except if the heads where smaller than 70cc then I would push the limits to race fuel... and it looks like the factory heads are 62cc... they said a thicker head gasket would fix this....so while I might be wrong heres what I have found... factory for my truck is 9.1:1 compression and if I run the 62cc heads with the stroker kit it would put me up around (maybe over) 12:1 I would rather not have to buy above mid grade fuel... but willing to do 91 (93 is not that common around here).....Any help here is one of my main issues...


O yeah and while the heads are off I plan on gasket matching them

I was thinking that a mild rv cam and lifters..

then a little down the road I'm thinking headers and a custom tuner from hemifever... from what I have read I can get away without the tuner for a while Just have a budget that I don't think can spare the $600 for the tuner.


Pics and everything will come as work starts... as well as a true parts list...
Title: Re: help me build my 408 stroker
Post by: ProjectPW on November 06, 2015, 08:16:12 AM
Anything over 9.5:1 compression will not work with the mild cam. Stick with what works... thicker head gaskets mean longer pushrods... comp cams is your best bet for a camshaft. You should call their tech line for advice on cam selection to work with your target compression ratio.

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Title: Re: help me build my 408 stroker
Post by: ProjectPW on November 06, 2015, 08:18:14 AM
Ryan has a very nice torque 408 in his Mexico rc. I am sure he can be a great help in guiding you on parts selection

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Title: Re: help me build my 408 stroker
Post by: rjtx667 on November 06, 2015, 08:24:04 AM
Be careful with all this.

I had my stroker professionally built by someone who only does Mopar. The cam also plays a lot into the compression ratio and what you can do with the truck.

Also not all stroker kits are made equally. You don't want an Eagle kit, they have lots of issues. I used a SCAT crank and then bought Mahle pistons. The type of dish you get on your piston makes a huge difference on the compression ratio as well.

Further I can also say you need to know all the tricks. You need Main Studs with a stroker, but there is 1 that still has to be a bolt because the oil pump has to fit in still. Also you need to modify the oil pump for better flow. Does not have to be a "high flow" just better flow.

I would give Mike at MRL performance a call

http://www.mrlperformance.com

he is very knowledgeable and helpful. He can give you suggestions and you can even order the parts you need from him.

My build I ended up keeping the stock 9.1 compression ratio, but that was just fine with me. It runs great.
Title: Re: help me build my 408 stroker
Post by: Dracen on November 06, 2015, 08:50:56 PM
after reading this I'm thinking that I might be better off simply getting different pistons with the kit instead of just going factory scat setup... The kit I'm looking at is Scat BTW....

Ryan what cam do you have in the RC? I wouldn't mind my compression ratio staying at factory... I wanted to avoid  more than 91 octain because thats the best you can get in my area.

I might just do a stroker crank and rods then 30 over pistons... I'm still lokoing at options but no matter what the motor rebuild needs to start soon... and I can't have it down to long.
Title: Re: help me build my 408 stroker
Post by: Dracen on November 06, 2015, 11:57:29 PM
ok so I'm making parts list please add anything you see me missing.

Stroker kit , includes Crank, Rod, Pistons, Rings, Bearings. it's a scat kit item number 1-198113bi Info below Purple is the cc of the head... my stock ones should be 62 from what I have found

         
Quote
CI  (408)   Crank Part No. (9-360-4000-6123-2123) Rod Part No. (2-ICR6123-2124) Crank Stroke (4.000") Rod Length (6.123") Piston Mfg(Icon) Piston Class (Forged) Bore   (4.03) Type (Dish) CC (-20.5) 62CC (10.2)   68CC (9.6) 70CC (9.4),  Bal'd Complete Assy (1-98113BI)

Cam/lifters http://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-cl20-309-4 (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-cl20-309-4)

         
QuoteCam and Lifters, Hydraulic Flat Tappet, Advertised Duration 268/276, Lift .464/.464, Mopar, Small Block, Kit

factory is Stock 5.9L Cam Specs
Intake duration 249
Exhaust duration 269
Overlap 41
Intake lift .410"
Exhaust duration .417"
Centerline 109
Install centerline 117

Timing gear set (double roller)
          http://www.summitracing.com/cart/add/DCC-5249267 (http://www.summitracing.com/cart/add/DCC-5249267)

Water pump Standard or High volume?
oil pump (mines only 9 days old)
Cam bearing set (order with the cam)
Freeze plug set (brass)
Full engine Gasket set does the one below look good?
     http://www.summitracing.com/parts/slp-260-1723 (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/slp-260-1723)
Head bolts (arp)
      http://www.summitracing.com/parts/arp-144-3605/overview/make/dodge (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/arp-144-3605/overview/make/dodge)
intake bolts
180 degree T stat


OK so T stat bolts, water pump bolts, timing cover bolts, oil pan bolts, might end up replaced as well but those will be on an as needed bases. with everything listed above I'm at $2100  in parts. so what am I missing? anyway out of time for tonight...LOL


Title: Re: help me build my 408 stroker
Post by: ProjectPW on November 07, 2015, 09:40:53 AM
You need a hydraulic roller cam for a magnum motor

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Title: Re: help me build my 408 stroker
Post by: ProjectPW on November 07, 2015, 09:43:11 AM
Standard volume water pump will be fine.... remember that everything you need will be for 93 and up Magnum engine ... not pre 93 LA


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Title: Re: help me build my 408 stroker
Post by: ProjectPW on November 07, 2015, 09:45:33 AM
You should price stock replacement head bolts... may be cheaper and perfectly adequate for your build

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Title: Re: help me build my 408 stroker
Post by: ProjectPW on November 07, 2015, 09:48:17 AM
When you choose the cam you should also buy the corresponding valve Springs and timing set that comp cams recommends.... remember it will have to be hydraulic ROLLER... your stock roller lifters can be reused, but I would recommend replacing them...

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Title: Re: help me build my 408 stroker
Post by: rjtx667 on November 07, 2015, 10:02:35 AM
I have a 210/220 cam with .512 lift on both intake and exhaust. its a very small cam for a 408 but it creates some good power.

It is a comp cam, but I don't remember the number right now.

I also had to get some mopar performance value springs like Noah said. They were not cheap.

You need to make sure the seat pressure is correct when the heads are built.

I bought after market EQ heads and cleaned them up a little. they work great and have more potential with more cleaning.

Give Mike a call and he can help you figure out exactly what you need. He has built a ton of engines.

Also the other thing to consider, if your staying fuel injected, you need to tune it.
Title: Re: help me build my 408 stroker
Post by: Dracen on November 07, 2015, 10:09:59 AM
Quote from: ProjectPW on November 07, 2015, 09:40:53 AM
You need a hydraulic roller cam for a magnum motor

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Thats what I thought as well but the one linked is what summit gave me with the full truck details... knowing year make model and even motor specs....  so what cam would you guys recommend? Links would be great...

Quote from: ProjectPW on November 07, 2015, 09:45:33 AM
You should price stock replacement head bolts... may be cheaper and perfectly adequate for your build

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well the ARP head bolt are only $91 and the factory (fel-pro) are $36 so that might  be one area I can go either one.

Quote from: ProjectPW on November 07, 2015, 09:43:11 AM
Standard volume water pump will be fine.... remember that everything you need will be for 93 and up Magnum engine ... not pre 93 LA


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Cool that will save a bit... I figured it would be fine but wanted to check.

Quote from: ProjectPW on November 07, 2015, 09:48:17 AM
When you choose the cam you should also buy the corresponding valve Springs and timing set that comp cams recommends.... remember it will have to be hydraulic ROLLER... your stock roller lifters can be reused, but I would recommend replacing them...

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I was planning on replacing the rollers as a CYA, I didn't want to go to a cam that needed other than factory heads because magnuns are common to be cracked and I can buy a complete remanned head for under $200 while if I rebuild mine it could be more depending on the needed work.

Quote from: rjtx667 on November 07, 2015, 10:02:35 AM
I have a 210/220 cam with .512 lift on both intake and exhaust. its a very small cam for a 408 but it creates some good power.

It is a comp cam, but I don't remember the number right now.

I also had to get some mopar performance value springs like Noah said. They were not cheap.

You need to make sure the seat pressure is correct when the heads are built.

I bought after market EQ heads and cleaned them up a little. they work great and have more potential with more cleaning.

Give Mike a call and he can help you figure out exactly what you need. He has built a ton of engines.

Also the other thing to consider, if your staying fuel injected, you need to tune it.

I'm staying fuel injected for sure. I was leaning to a mild RV still cam only because I was told I should replace my cam. after all my motor has 224K miles. I will try to call Mike on my day off but honestly from the look of his site I can't Afford Him or his parts. The guy I got doing the machine work has been building motors for over 50 years so I'm also trusting in him. He's known to be very good...  might end up paying the $700 and having it turn key.

As far as the parts going I'm honestly trusting in others to get me lined out The stroker kit I'll be getting through Cleggs (more than likely) and while they where $400 more than I found other places they where the ones to mention the needed piston change... I might go with the cam kit through them as well....  Anything else you guys see? what about other items missed or should be changed Links sure would be a big help. Otherwise I have to trust in places like Summit or cleggs and I would like to be able to shop around for price.
Title: Re: help me build my 408 stroker
Post by: ProjectPW on November 07, 2015, 10:23:56 AM
http://m.summitracing.com/parts/cca-20-745-9

That would probably perform well with out to much trouble... keep in mind that the factory computer will not play to nicely with a mild 408... it will probably run, but it will be iffy

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Title: Re: help me build my 408 stroker
Post by: ProjectPW on November 07, 2015, 10:27:08 AM
http://m.summitracing.com/parts/cca-20-744-9

This one is a bit milder and may work better without tuning

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Title: Re: help me build my 408 stroker
Post by: ProjectPW on November 07, 2015, 10:28:11 AM
Both will be very street able with awesome torque

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Title: Re: help me build my 408 stroker
Post by: ProjectPW on November 07, 2015, 10:31:29 AM
New valve Springs that match the cam are required

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Title: Re: help me build my 408 stroker
Post by: ProjectPW on November 07, 2015, 10:35:21 AM
I would also have your builder install the cam and properly degree it.... it is very very important. . Valve to piston clearance also needs to verified to avoid disasters on start up. These two steps CANNOT BE SKIPPED!

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Title: Re: help me build my 408 stroker
Post by: bullboy0852 on November 07, 2015, 11:51:19 AM
Does the magnum have rocker studs or shaft? If it's shaft check the rockers, mine had about the same mileage and had grooves cut in the sides from the spacer\washer which did not allow the rocker to open or close fully and killed my cam quickly.

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Title: Re: help me build my 408 stroker
Post by: ProjectPW on November 07, 2015, 12:23:19 PM
Quote from: bullboy0852 on November 07, 2015, 11:51:19 AM
Does the magnum have rocker studs or shaft? If it's shaft check the rockers, mine had about the same mileage and had grooves cut in the sides from the spacer\washer which did not allow the rocker to open or close fully and killed my cam quickly.

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Magnums are stud mount... the rockers are probably ok.... just check for irregular wear

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Title: Re: help me build my 408 stroker
Post by: Dracen on November 07, 2015, 01:25:23 PM
I'll look into the cams thanks for the list. I was going to do the main part of the build myself as I'm not sure I will be able to swing the extra $700 the guy wants to put it together. I do have a few local friends that have built motors and I ordered a factory service manual. The more I get into this the more I'm leaning towards having him build it... or ordering a prebuilt drop in...that way all I would have to do is install my intake and bolt it all in place and plug in everything then turn the key and it will run....
Title: Re: help me build my 408 stroker
Post by: ProjectPW on November 07, 2015, 01:36:33 PM
Quote from: Dracen on November 07, 2015, 01:25:23 PM
I'll look into the cams thanks for the list. I was going to do the main part of the build myself as I'm not sure I will be able to swing the extra $700 the guy wants to put it together. I do have a few local friends that have built motors and I ordered a factory service manual. The more I get into this the more I'm leaning towards having him build it... or ordering a prebuilt drop in...that way all I would have to do is install my intake and bolt it all in place and plug in everything then turn the key and it will run....
Just keep in mind that the factory pcm tune will only keep up with a stock motor... it will likely start and run...how well depends on the build... my advice is to go with a very mild camshaft profile if you want any chance of it working with the stock tuning

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Title: Re: help me build my 408 stroker
Post by: Dracen on November 07, 2015, 01:42:44 PM
Quote from: ProjectPW on November 07, 2015, 01:36:33 PM
Just keep in mind that the factory pcm tune will only keep up with a stock motor... it will likely start and run...how well depends on the build... my advice is to go with a very mild camshaft profile if you want any chance of it working with the stock tuning

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I have already been in contact with Hemifever tuning about a tuner for the truck including a custom tune. only planning on runing it on a stock tune to get it runing then oafter that it will be all custom from there.
Title: Re: help me build my 408 stroker
Post by: ProjectPW on November 07, 2015, 01:54:14 PM
Quote from: Dracen on November 07, 2015, 01:42:44 PM
I have already been in contact with Hemifever tuning about a tuner for the truck including a custom tune. only planning on runing it on a stock tune to get it runing then oafter that it will be all custom from there.
Good deal... you may want to discuss what fuel injectors will be needed. The stockers may keep up, but may limit upper rpm performance.

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Title: Re: help me build my 408 stroker
Post by: Dracen on November 07, 2015, 02:02:29 PM
Quote from: ProjectPW on November 07, 2015, 01:54:14 PM
Good deal... you may want to discuss what fuel injectors will be needed. The stockers may keep up, but may limit upper rpm performance.

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factory injectors for my motor are 19lb (I believe been a while) I already have 24 lb injectors installed.. been running them for a year. The ones I have are pretty much the same as the purple viper injectors. 

I had already ported and polished out the factory intake and TB. Installed a 180 degree T stat, e3 platinum plugs, 8.8mm wires, brass cap and rotor, 24lb fuel injectors, exhaust is factory size but changed (...no clue what all as I bought it done exhaust wise)
Title: Re: help me build my 408 stroker
Post by: ProjectPW on November 07, 2015, 02:11:55 PM
Quote from: Dracen on November 07, 2015, 02:02:29 PM
factory injectors for my motor are 19lb (I believe been a while) I already have 24 lb injectors installed.. been running them for a year. The ones I have are pretty much the same as the purple viper injectors. 

I had already ported and polished out the factory intake and TB. Installed a 180 degree T stat, e3 platinum plugs, 8.8mm wires, brass cap and rotor, 24lb fuel injectors, exhaust is factory size but changed (...no clue what all as I bought it done exhaust wise)
The 24# injectors should keep up fine

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Title: Re: help me build my 408 stroker
Post by: Dracen on November 07, 2015, 02:19:21 PM
I had an injecter. Quick right after I got the truck so I got all new ones 82nd like this motor build no reason to go stock.
Title: Re: help me build my 408 stroker
Post by: Dracen on November 07, 2015, 09:01:15 PM
what do you guys think of this kit stroker instead?
http://www.hughesengines.com/Index/products.php?browse=category&level0=Qi0gU21hbGwgQmxvY2sgRG9kZ2UgTWFnbnVt&level1=U3Ryb2tlciBLaXRz&partid=26453 (http://www.hughesengines.com/Index/products.php?browse=category&level0=Qi0gU21hbGwgQmxvY2sgRG9kZ2UgTWFnbnVt&level1=U3Ryb2tlciBLaXRz&partid=26453)

maybe this came?
http://www.hughesengines.com/Index/products.php?browse=category&level0=Qi0gU21hbGwgQmxvY2sgRG9kZ2UgTWFnbnVt&level1=Q2Ftc2hhZnQ=&level2=Um9sbGVyLCBIeWRyYXVsaWM=&partid=30852 (http://www.hughesengines.com/Index/products.php?browse=category&level0=Qi0gU21hbGwgQmxvY2sgRG9kZ2UgTWFnbnVt&level1=Q2Ftc2hhZnQ=&level2=Um9sbGVyLCBIeWRyYXVsaWM=&partid=30852)

man the choices are limited yet so many... I'm hoping to simply find the easies and cheapest one that will work for my needs.
Title: Re: help me build my 408 stroker
Post by: ProjectPW on November 08, 2015, 07:31:46 AM
You really need to call hughes or comp and talk to their tech guys. Remember that if  you use a thicker head gasket for clearance you will need to add the same to the length of the pushrods
Title: Re: help me build my 408 stroker
Post by: Dracen on November 08, 2015, 07:36:44 AM
I'm no longer looking at the kit that requires the thicker head gasket. And hard to call at 2am on the weekend. I'm looking at specs ie what's a rv can spec cam?
Title: Re: help me build my 408 stroker
Post by: SixGun on November 08, 2015, 08:13:40 AM
RV cams are generally 0-5000 rpms.
Title: Re: help me build my 408 stroker
Post by: Dracen on November 08, 2015, 08:22:07 AM
Well... This project might end up on hold as I just located a full 99 ram with a newly rebuilt 360 under the hood, Baja mtz tires and 3" body lift, after market grill and front bumper for 1200 the trans is out in it... Motor only has 8900 miles on it so might be worth the hour drive. And there's another one with a new motor and 6" fabtech lift and new 35" tires for $3500 trans is out on this one as well. So looks like I have options that I hadn't thought about really because ideally I didn't want a used motor but both claim to have new motors with paperwork... And I get other spare parts... Or I could buy another local truck I know of for 500 that was wrecked and has a good motor and trans and put them in the truck I get the motor out of and sell the left overs and make a little extra... Lol dang the options now.
Title: Re: help me build my 408 stroker
Post by: ProjectPW on November 08, 2015, 08:48:13 AM
A 408 build needs to be meticulously designed and built... there is no such thing as a budget stroker motor... You will be better served with a nice healthy stock 360 magnum... cheap and readily available
Title: Re: help me build my 408 stroker
Post by: Dracen on November 08, 2015, 09:08:56 AM
Well honestly the price of parts was not so much of the issue and labor was cheap it's figuring out the parts that suck. I will more than likely still build it but it will not be in near the rush that I feel I'm in now. Might take a few months total rather then a few weeks. Lol
Title: Re: help me build my 408 stroker
Post by: ProjectPW on November 08, 2015, 09:12:56 AM
Quote from: Dracen on November 08, 2015, 09:08:56 AM
Well honestly the price of parts was not so much of the issue and labor was cheap it's figuring out the parts that suck. I will more than likely still build it but it will not be in near the rush that I feel I'm in now. Might take a few months total rather then a few weeks. Lol

That is the best way to go about it  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: help me build my 408 stroker
Post by: Dracen on November 08, 2015, 09:21:38 AM
I just hate wasting money so I wanted to do the striker rather than a factory rebuild or going with a used motor but both the trucks I found say they both have new motors and bad trans so figure if I get one of them I get a few other parts as well and I can get the third truck I know of and take the parts from 3 and fix the second one up nice and sell it for as much r more than I have into the other two I didn't need so it would be pretty much a free temp motor while I have time to build up the strocker... Plus I can add things like the programmer and headers along the way before dropping in the stroker making it at least feel more of a budget build... So either way let's keep this thread moving with the build...
Title: Re: help me build my 408 stroker
Post by: Dracen on November 08, 2015, 08:59:45 PM
Well plans have changed... I ended up getting a full truck for 1200 so the 408 does not have to be done in a rush.... and I can do the build the way I feel it really should be.

https://wichitafalls.craigslist.org/cto/5297549158.html (https://wichitafalls.craigslist.org/cto/5297549158.html)

the truck I got is a 99 dodge ram 2wd... 3" body lift and 3" suspension lift with a full set of 315 x 70 x 17 Mickey Thompson mtz tires (I would say about 75% tread left on all 4), seats look good (cloth). body is about 80% perfect only damage I can find is the passenger side  door has a whiskey style dent as does the extended cab door. Now the motor starts and runs great... aftermarket grill.. that has really grown on me... has a spectra dual cold air intake.

so here's the bad... Transmission is toast... dash is pretty much shot.... Looks like some wiring was  chewed up and electrical taped but works fine. passenger side front blinker is broke custom built front tube bumper is welded to the core support and then a piece of diamond plate connects it to the front cross member. and the guy who did the work must have been in a hurry because the top tube is sloped instead of flat. door panels are held on by screws. driver seat power does not work (I'm thinking fuses)

Hope to have the motors swapped in the next two weeks or so. then I'll move on to tearing the 99 down to parts and selling off or trading off things I don't want or need.... Going to start with a minor overhaul of the new motor.. IE plugs wires cap rotor... normal tune up stuff and might change out the sensors and all to stuff off my block... but going to do a compression check first. also going to order headers for it... Might as well start off with the first parts for the new build as well...LOL
Title: Re: help me build my 408 stroker
Post by: rjtx667 on November 09, 2015, 11:17:09 AM
good luck with it all.

I agree with Noah. a stroker is not cheap and not to be done on a budget. it takes time and money, and has to be done right!!!

There is a book on amazon

http://www.amazon.com/Modify-Mopar-Magnum-V-8HP1473-Step--ebook/dp/B002SV3768/

it has a lot of good info in it.

When you do go to get some tuning work done... DO NOT USE HEMIFEAVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

and just in case you did not understand I will say it again

DO NOT USE HEMIFEAVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
DO NOT USE HEMIFEAVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
DO NOT USE HEMIFEAVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
DO NOT USE HEMIFEAVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
DO NOT USE HEMIFEAVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
DO NOT USE HEMIFEAVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I used him first and it was a total waste of money. my 408 ran like a stock 360.

Flying Ryan (Ryan Hogan) really made the engine come alive. Its amazing the difference. I have charts where I tracked the improvements and changes. Its night and day.

Let us know how it all goes.
Title: Re: help me build my 408 stroker
Post by: Dracen on November 09, 2015, 01:48:21 PM
do you have a link to  flying ryan?

hughes also offers the custom tunes and all just not sure how custom they will do.

I honestly thing stokers can be done on a budget...  so long as the research is done... for example to me I dont see a need to buy a $4000 stroker kit thats ment for racing when I dont plan on racing  there is a scat stroker kit that $1500 that will work just fine for me. I want to keep stoke compression no need to run anything higher than 91 fuel for me. as is I normally can't get above 91 locally anyway. I don't see a need to use $3000 worth of heads when a ported and polished stock set should be just fine. My goals not 500 HP I honestly dont care that much about the numbers at all I want a strong reliable motor, sure a stock 360 would work but if I'm going to rebuild it anyway why not put in an extra little bit and stroke it? honestly I wouldn't mind not doing the 30 over if 10 over will do but at the same time having a full 408 stroker would be nice.  I guess thats what I mean by a budget stroker.  sure it's going to cost but  no need to over do the budget...

I guess this thread will become more of a documentation thread as I go along as well. hopefully I can start ordering more parts here in the next few weeks.... I'm not sure what order I'll get them in but I'm going to start with more this week.  So far I have a set of shorty headers (more than likely by long tube later) but found a deal on this set of stainless for $120 shipped. then add in the factory service manual at $30 (digital as I have a laser printer so I can print only the pages as I need them)... Then I'm more than likely going to get the book was just linked. 


So on another note... once I get the block out I will more than likely send it off to get all the machine work done pretty quickly... whats the best way to make sure that it stays in good shape until I get the parts in and installed? or would it be better to simply wait until everything is here and machine it and put it together all at once? I know guys that have done true rolller 10K rpm motors and it toke many many years with the machined block sitting there, but I'm looking to have it done no later than new years time frame. built and in the truck.
Title: Re: help me build my 408 stroker
Post by: bullboy0852 on November 09, 2015, 05:36:47 PM
That is a good question about the machine work, I want to get mine done as funds become available but how to keep the block fresh while awaiting parts is a mystery to me as well.

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Title: Re: help me build my 408 stroker
Post by: Dracen on November 09, 2015, 09:18:37 PM
book ordered and working on downloading to read and print.
Title: Re: help me build my 408 stroker
Post by: rjtx667 on November 10, 2015, 09:56:58 AM
you can get the block dip'd and mag'd but really no point in doing any of it until your ready to build.

You want the clean up and hone to be fresh for the install. Blocks are a dime a dozen, so if the block is bad its easy and cheap to replace. Most of the time its the crank and heads. those you can see most of the time before you get machine work.

As far as heads go... consider the EQ heads. they are not too bad price wise, and they have better castings and are stronger/ don't crack like factory heads.

worth the little extra in the long run. Doing a 408, you will need the 1.92/2.02 valves as the heads are the major bottle neck of the magnums. its hard to get them to flow enough air to power the 408 to full potential.

Ryan does tunings through Air Ram performance

http://www.airram.com
Title: Re: help me build my 408 stroker
Post by: Dracen on November 14, 2015, 12:13:45 AM
Not much done on this stuff the last few days but I did get the headers in...

So what parts (links or at least specs) would you guys buy with a parts budge of ...

3k
4k
5k
$$$ (ideal parts as if you where spending someone else's money on your own motor...)

Keep in mind this is a daily driver... Going to be lifted and tire of around 35-37" ...must run on pump gas... Will be fuel injected... So custom tune... Automatic (going to build this as well But that will be another deal)...
Title: Re: help me build my 408 stroker
Post by: SixGun on November 14, 2015, 06:33:18 PM
The guys are out at Hidden Falls for the weekend.  :steeringwheel:
Title: Re: help me build my 408 stroker
Post by: Dracen on November 14, 2015, 06:35:52 PM
Would be nice to be able to get back to wheelin been several years sense I went to ram jam or a big get together...  Only been wheel in about 5 or 6 times in the last year.
Title: Re: help me build my 408 stroker
Post by: SixGun on November 14, 2015, 08:53:34 PM
That sounds pretty good.  Where are you located? They go to Hidden Falls maybe 3x a year. Lotta fun!!
Title: Re: help me build my 408 stroker
Post by: Dracen on November 14, 2015, 09:56:15 PM
I live 2.5 hours west of witchita falls... 2.5 hours south east of Amarillo.. 2.5hours northeast of lubbock... Look up zip 79248....  I live out in the middle of no where... It's an hour drive to Wal-Mart. Lol... I have wheeled several of my arms with a few of you guys and even toke a 2000 intrepid to a ram jam... And got it stick on a sand bank in camp... Lol... I have got to get this truck finished... It will put my old 97 to shame...
Title: Re: help me build my 408 stroker
Post by: rjtx667 on November 16, 2015, 09:13:54 AM
I grew up in amarillo  :headbang:
Title: Re: help me build my 408 stroker
Post by: Dracen on November 16, 2015, 11:36:11 AM
Well do you know where Childress is? Its south on 287... Well I live south of Childress about 45 minutes.
Title: Re: help me build my 408 stroker
Post by: rjtx667 on November 16, 2015, 02:24:06 PM
Yup been through Childress many of times.

My dad bought his challenger from there.
Title: Re: help me build my 408 stroker
Post by: Dracen on November 18, 2015, 09:50:09 PM
Just a note for anyone else out there thinking about doing headers on a stock magnum 360 get the head studs ahead of time... Mine are 5/16 18.... And normal bolts will not work. At least not on the headers I for the head hits the exhaust pipe... 
Title: Re: help me build my 408 stroker
Post by: Dracen on November 24, 2015, 07:37:44 PM
well headers are on and have been for a few days now. still have not had much time to do much else.... really need to get a bleed down gauge setup and al and try to figure out where #6 is loosing pressure.

Never had a motor have a miss before so this is all new grounds to me. never had a dodge with motor issues...LOL
Title: Re: help me build my 408 stroker
Post by: Dracen on December 01, 2015, 07:56:20 PM
well leak down test showed exactly what I expected the exhaust valve is toast on cylinder 6. so I called the machine shop and he no longer does oversized valves so can't do the 2.02 valves in this head so time to look at getting the better heads... suggestion?
Title: Re: help me build my 408 stroker
Post by: ProjectPW on December 02, 2015, 07:27:00 AM
The magnum EQ heads are the best bang for your buck...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-DODGE-CHRYSLER-EQ-MONSTER-MAGNUM-318-360-5-2-5-9-OHV-V8-CYLINDER-HEADS-/171797459534?hash=item27ffed324e:g:dcQAAOxygPtSyvdV&vxp=mtr

They can be had for around 350/head with stock sized valves
Title: Re: help me build my 408 stroker
Post by: rjtx667 on December 02, 2015, 08:38:47 AM
those are the heads I run on my truck. I just had it machined to take the larger valves.

There is a lot of work to go into heads, you need the larger valves, machine work, and then verify the seat pressure of the spring is what the cam calls for, verify lift etc etc.
Title: Re: help me build my 408 stroker
Post by: Dracen on December 02, 2015, 11:00:56 AM
I did send Ryan a email and for a reply from him and at this point he is saying the same thing that you guys said... Stick with the 360 not stroke it... Lol I was looking forward to a 408...lol. Well guess we will see what happens. Going to start buying parts as soon as is get the exact items listed... Lol I'm thinking right now I will simply take the head off the other motor out of the 99 and put it on mine to keep it simple and so I can collect all the parts at once....
I might do the motor swap for now but I'm pretty sure the motor in the 99 is a 318 instead of the 360 I was told it was... So if I would not be able to build it in place of my motor.

So what do you guys think motor swap while I collect parts and built the 360 or swap the head and keep it simple for now until the parts are all here?

Seams kind of hard to figure out what I should do. I am kind of leaning towards keeping my factory motor in and collecting parts.... I.e. heads, cam and lifters to install all at once. I think I should be able to do the full motor build in a week. With all the parts on hand.

Knowing me if I get the intake I'll install it and run it until the rest of the motor is ready...lol

Ok below is pretty much a few quistion I ask Ryan so let's see what you guys say as well.

What intake would you guys run?
Head? In know the EQ heads but I have no place to do any changes like larger valves.
Cam?
Trottle body?
Roller rockers?
Would you rebuild the rotating assembly as it has 223k miles?
Bore or just clean up/hone, new bearings?

What about Trans upgrades?  I believe mine's never been touched other than guild changes.
Shift kit? I have been looking at a trans go shift kit I think they called it a stage 2 With valve body and all.
Torque converter?

The exact heads I'm looking at right now will be built to my cam specs and everything ported and polished larger valves and roller rockers fully setup ready for dropping on my block and max is something like $1600. So I guess you can say my budget is flexible. Heck if I could get the EQ heads and have them worked over near one of you guys and then shipped to me for less I would do it.... Might even see if my step dad's mechanic shop has access to a shop that can do it for cheaper.

Title: Re: help me build my 408 stroker
Post by: rjtx667 on December 02, 2015, 12:34:56 PM
My heads ran right about $1600 with everything new (heads, valves, seats, etc) except the springs which I had.

Depending on what springs you need, the springs should not add that much to the cost. This was with the 2.02/1.92 valves.

Once again... call and talk to Mike. He is a great guy with a lot of knowledge.

As for the 99... look on the block... I believe the driver side... it should have 318 or 360 on the side showing which engine it is. On top of that you can always decode the vin or look at the emissions sticker under the hood as long as the engine has not been replaced.

The cam I have in my 408 is a Comp cam 20-604-9 which works great.

Your factory rollers should be more than adiquiet unless your trying to turn more than 5500 RPM. That cam won't do much more than that anyways.

The Throttle body, I would stick with the stock 50MM, and then if needed you can upgrade to a 53MM.

at 223k miles, I would rebuild the lower end. If your going to do it... do it right.

The transmission probably needs a refresh as well. I used Martin Saine for my transmission, he rebuilt one and sent it to me. He was about the same price as local shops, except he had a lot more upgrades and better parts... and I had to remove and install it.
Title: Re: help me build my 408 stroker
Post by: Dracen on December 02, 2015, 01:19:16 PM
Ok cool so the 1600 on the heads isn't bad... It is a full brand new setup.

The motor in the 99 was changes or so I was told. I was told,it was swapped to a 360 never even looked at the vin other than to see it was there.. Lol the truck is already pieced out pretty much. Stripped the front clip off including all eletrical only thing left to pull the motor is the trans bolts and torque converter bolts. The rest is done. The interior is also fully stripped out.  Toke me about 8 hours to get it this far..

I'll look into redoing the block... Would you bore it or leave it stock?
Title: Re: help me build my 408 stroker
Post by: Dracen on December 02, 2015, 01:51:18 PM
None of my trucks have had or have roller rockers from the factory. They have all been stamped steel. I was thinking a factory ratio just for less friction.

I was thinking about redoing the trans as I'll already have the motor out...
Title: Re: help me build my 408 stroker
Post by: Dracen on December 02, 2015, 02:11:36 PM
Looks like I have the trans rebuilds figured out... Lol everything I read about Martians trans I can't get better... And I have a spare core I can send him... Lol to keep mine driving down the road.
Title: Re: help me build my 408 stroker
Post by: rjtx667 on December 03, 2015, 10:36:33 AM
Martin is a great guy and has a great product... his wording for warranty is "24 months you can't break it as long as you follow my instructions to install it"

local places won't even give that long of a warranty!

and yeah the factory rockers are not full roller, but it is a roller cam. The factory rockers are good enough. I put roller rockers on because I had some laying around. The amount of gain they give you is very very small. Unless you go to the 1.7's vs the stock 1.6.

As for bore, I would only bore it if it needs it. going 30 over does not increase the size that much... like 360 to 363 or something. Its small. Only real reason to do it on a standard 360 is if it needs it. On a 408 it takes it from a 402 to a 408 or something like that.
Title: Re: help me build my 408 stroker
Post by: Dracen on December 06, 2015, 09:00:53 AM
wow I guess I'm either to picky or to clueless as to what I really need or want ion the motor. so I guess I'm going to end up doing the full motor swap from the 99 then tear the factory 360 down and see what parts I need and what the best parts I can put in it are... Just hate the idea of going from the 360 to a 318... But O well  then I've got time to do an all a true motor /trans build. because I know I'll build more motor than the trans will handle.  Might even end up building a trans build myself so I know everything that goes into it like I do the rest of the truck. as is I know every nut bolt pretty much.  or at least I like to think I do...LOL
Title: Re: help me build my 408 stroker
Post by: Dracen on December 15, 2015, 08:53:43 PM
ok guys as You had mentioned and all and I'm not sure if I updated this thread or not I have found a company that is going to build me a full long block 360 with EQ heads  with the larger 2.02 valves and moly rings and a comp cam 20-604-9....  then the programmer and new intake mainfold.

what intake manifold would you guys recommend?

Now i'll be getting the full long block for $2,500 shipped to the house. Now with it being a long block I'm planing on replacing all the bearings on the front. new T stat and water pump. should I go high flow water pump?

Thinking about doing a few oil pan modifications while it's off and adding a more capacity what do you guys think?

I'm simply planing on doing everything I can to make this motor good for as long as I can without working on it again. that way I can save funds for a transmission, lift and tires...

Title: Re: help me build my 408 stroker
Post by: rjtx667 on December 16, 2015, 10:18:05 AM
A long block should have all new bearings inside it.

a standard water pump will be just fine, I have a standard water pump on my 408. You want to make sure your radiator is in good shape and clean.

If you want to do something with the oil pan, find one for a 2000 ish dakota that has some built in windage tray stuff. They are better than the stock ones that came on the RAM's.


Intakes it depends on what you want to do, I have the Air gap. It works good, I just don't buy into all the Hughe's cool aid.

the M1 intake is also good, people say you loose lower end torque but I have not seen that issue with the trucks I have had that had the M1 intake. I still have a M1 on my trail truck. Its over kill... but it was on the engine when I put it in and just left it as I have no other use for it right now.
Title: Re: help me build my 408 stroker
Post by: Dracen on December 16, 2015, 10:03:50 PM
I was think about doing the m1 intake but having a hard time finding one for my motor.  Ryan recommended either the m1 or the air gap.

As far as bearing I ment like tensioner pulley bearing and all on the front of the motor... Sorry guess I didn't explain that very well...

My radiator and all should be good But I might try a flush and cleaning or just look at it with the camera I just got. So I'll stick with the standard flow water pump.

Motor comes with a high flow oil pump standard.

As far as the oil pan I'm mostly thinking extra fluid more than anything to help keep everything cool... And I might add the oil cooler setup I have as I already have it...